You may have drunk our Once Upon A Time series of authentically historical beers: so far, we’ve made an 1832 Mild Ale, a 1901 KK and a 1955 East India Porter. This series is a collaboration between Pretty Things and brewing historian Ron Pattinson. Each of the beers is inspired by Ron’s research and each offering so far has relied on his research to produce a recipe. We thought we’d put together a little Q & A to help introduce you to Ron himself. The following correspondence took place October 24th, 2011.
Martha and I first met Ron in Amsterdam in 2006 at a pub called “In de Wildeman” a few years before we moved back to Boston to begin Pretty Things. We share his curiousity of the murky brewing past, his love of great beer, and really enjoy the confounding truths his research spits out. Since we’ve known Ron we’ve had quite a few sessions at many pubs here and over there. Each and every time Ron’s got a zinger that blows our minds.
Here’s a good for-instance that’s actually in print. In the foreward to his 620 page “mega book” called Porter! Ron writes:
“In the pages that follow – if you can be arsed to turn them – you’ll find a collection of my writings on Porter and Stout. Doubtless you’ll soon be numbed as I bludgeon you with facts, smashing a couple of simplistic points into your head…”
The last “simplistic point” on the list? Care to guess? Here it is:
“There’s no real difference between Porter and Stout.”
ZING! We hope you enjoy the interview.
PTB&AP I think I remember that one of your early jobs was working in a brewery. Can you tell us anything about that?
RP Between school and university I worked during the summer holidays at the Courage brewery (formerly James Hole) in Newark-on-Trent, the town where I grew up. My job was filling kegs. It was a hot summer and they were at full stretch and needed extra staff.
Most of what I was filling was AK, the main Bitter. That and Lager. Though there was still a fair bit of Mild. And occasionally IPA, the beer that had been the standard Bitter of the other Newark brewery, Warwick and Richardson. Only one pub in Newark still sold it, but there were a few accounts elsewhere.
What’s stayed with me most is the smell, one seemingly common to all breweries. It’s a combination of the smell of fermentation and disinfectant. Any time I step inside a brewery and smell it, I’m 18 again and back inside the Holes brewery. Very strange, considering I only spent a few weeks there.
Tea breaks were fun. The brewery was “wet” and we spent our breaks in a cellar where there were kegs of AK and Old Tom we could help ourselves from. The old hands usually knocked back 4 pints in a 15-minute break. Then they went back to operating heavy machinery.
The work was very heavy. I doubt I could do it now. After filling the kegs we helped load them onto lorries. I can remember just being able to lift a full 50 liter keg on my own. How to kick a barrel or keg around (so you don’t need to bend down) was the most useful skill I learned.
PTB&AP Your research is very interested in numbers, more so than any other ”beer historian”. Did your interest in numbers come first or was it your curiosity in beer that brought you to the numbers?
RP I’ve always been obsessed by numbers and statistics. I started collecting beer statistics before I even really started writing about beer. When I started looking at brewing records, recording the numbers seemed the obvious place to start.
In a field where so much is subjective, the comparative objectivity of numbers appeals to me. When you’ve assembled numbers like OG, FG, ABV, hopping rate, fermentation temperature, fermentation time you can start comparing beers from different breweries and beers from different periods in a useful way.
PTB&AP When we read your books or articles in BeerAdvocate magazine or your blog, it seems that we have lost so much of the old common knowledge in the brewing trade. Do you think that’s true and what do you think beer has lost as a consequence (if anything)?
RP Brewing techniques and even styles have been forgotten. Not all changes in methods are necessarily improvements. Some are just convenience or fashion. I was at the 15th anniversary vertical tasting of Fullers Vintage Ale. John Keeling talked about the techniques and principles of aging and it was clear that he was rediscovering forgotten knowledge. Victorian brewers were experts on the subject and, although they didn’t understand all the mechanisms at work, they had empirical knowledge of what worked and what didn’t.
Every time I talk to Derek Prentice, head brewer at Fullers, I learn something new. I worry that as his generation of brewers retire a wealth of knowledge will be lost. Some – like how to perform a dropping fermentation – might not be that useful in a modern brewery, but it would still be a shame if it were lost. Other knowledge, like how to blend aged
beer with young to create Truman’s Barley Wine, I think is just as relevant today. After Derek retires who will know how to do that? What happens if someone wants to brew a blended beer like that? How will they know what to do? Because this stuff has never been written down.There’s a project I’d like to do: interview older and retired brewers about exactly this type of thing. Ask them how they used to brew and why. I’ve brewing manuals to tell me the theory and brewing records to give me the bare numbers, but there’s a whole area of knowledge between the two that hasn’t been systematically recorded.
PTB&AP If we could plunk ourselves down at any pub in any year, where would it be and what beers would we be drinking?
RP My initial reaction is to say we’d be in London in 1740, drinking Porter. But I’d want to make sure I had a full set of vaccinations before setting off and bring my own packed lunch. I definitely wouldn’t want to be eating any 18th-century pies. I’d probably make sure I was drinking in a brewery tap, too. Less chance of anything nasty in the beer.
For a relaxing drinking experience, I’d go for London in about 1901. I’d go through the full set of draught beers, starting with X Ale. I’d be particularly interested in Burton. That’s more of a tricky one to pin down than some of the other styles. And bottled Bass, of course. I’d love to see how a properly-aged Stock Pale Ale tasted.
PTB&AP Of the Once Upon a Time beers we’ve done together, which do you think was the closest taste-wise to the original?
RP That’s a tricky one. Funnily enough, probably the oldest one, 1832 XXXX. Mostly because it was such a simple recipe.
PTB&AP Modern American brewers are obsessed with beer “styles” and use them as reference, even formulating beers around them. Would the same have been true of the majority of brewers you’ve researched? If so, where did these parameters come from?
RP Often in technical brewing reference books, new brewers were recommended to brew according to the tastes of the region they were in. Brewing was still mostly a local affair until well into the 20th century. If drinkers expected their Mild sweet, that’s the way you brewed it.
There weren’t so much defined styles as general types of beer: Mild Ale, Old or Strong Ale, Pale Ale, Porter, Stout. As well as varying from region to region, these types mutated over time. Generally, brewers brewed something the customers expected as cheaply as possible. So when they learned it was cheaper to brew Porter from mostly pale malt with something to colour the wort, they stopped having 100% brown malt grists. It changed the character of the beer dramatically, for no other reason than economy.
They also kept a close eye on their competitors’ products. Looking at the records from different London brewers, it’s uncanny how close the strengths of their beers were. And if a brewer had a hit with the public, others would imitate it. That’s how Pale Ale spread across Britain. Other brewers saw how much money Bass and Allsopp were making and tried to cash in with their own versions of Pale Ale.
I guess my theory is materialist: that it’s money that drives change. Whereas modern style guideline constructs are idealistic: the ideas come first.
Money with a thin veneer of fashion on top is what has driven the evolution of beer styles. That’s why I find the idea of one brewer inventing a style overnight so ridiculous. The process is more complicated than that. New ingredients, new equipment, new techniques and new markets created new styles rather than superstar brewers. Just like what happened in other industries during the Industrial Revolution.
PTB&AP If your research were Jacob Marley from A Christmas Carol, what message would it be moaning to us in the middle of the night?
RP Patience.
PTB&AP Where’s your favorite place for a beer in the present?
RP One specific location: the Royal Oak, the Harvey’s pub in London. Timeless, beer and atmosphere. More generally: Bavaria. I love the simplicity of it: one draught beer, meant to be drunk in big gulps on a hot sunny day. One of the top three most enjoyable beers I’ve had this year was Augustiner Helles in Munich. Straight from the barrel, light, fresh and just wonderful. More ballerina than heavyweight boxer.
PTB&AP There are so many beer-bloggers and beer-writers these days. Can yourecommend any quality writers to us?
RP This list is blogging seen through the prism of my specific interests:
history, history and humour.Zythophile. Martyn Cornell’s blog. His blog is head and shoulders above
everyone else’s. Long, well-researched and humourously-written articles.
Better than anything you find in print.I might have a glass of beer. Scotland and its beer is a current obsession
of mine. Which is what this blog is mostly about. Information vampire that
I am, it’s a rare source of fresh blood.Pete Brown’s blog I’m sure everyone knows. With good reason: he’s a
terrific writer. Capable of long, reasoned and reasonable articles,
seasoned with the humour I love. Anyone who hasn’t read his book “Hops and
Glory” should get their hands on a copy pronto.Beer Nut, Fuggled, Tandleman, Pivní Filosof are some of the others I
enjoy. Ones with personality appeal to me. Where it’s as if the author is
talking to you in his own voice.
PTB&AP Do you have any interesting projects upcoming?
RP Depends on your definition of interesting. I’m not sure any of my plans would have Joe Bloggs slathering into his porridge.
I’ve a couple of breweries interested in brewing Scottish beers from the 19th century. I’d like to get more involved. So much junk has been written about Scottish beer. Verbal persuasion having failed dismally, I’m swapping to liquid evidence. And, narcissist that I am, I long to drink beers from real Scottish recipes.
The project is called “Let’s Brew Scottish Beer!”. I know. Not very imaginative.
Maybe a book, too. Called “Scotland!”. (Titles really aren’t my thing.)
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Thanks to Ron for the interview. Stay tuned: we’re continuing to work with Ron in our Once Upon A Time historical recreation series, with another installment coming in early 2012.
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